NEW DELHI: Noting that he belongs to a family of bureaucrats and that the political opportunity as Union Minister came like a bolt from the blue in 2019, Foreign Affairs Minister S Jaishankar he said on Tuesday that his father, Dr K Subrahmanyam, was removed as secretary, defense production, by former prime minister Indira Gandhi soon after she returned to power in 1980 and was replaced during Rajiv Gandhi’s time with someone younger than him who became the Cabinet Secretary.
In an interview with ANI, Jaishankar talked about his journey from foreign service to politics and said that he always aspired to be the best officer and to be elevated to the post of foreign minister.
Jaishankar served as foreign minister from January 2015 to January 2018 and previously held key positions including ambassador to China and the United States. His father K Subrahmanyam, who passed away in 2011, is considered one of India’s most important national security strategists.
“I wanted to be the best foreign service officer. And in my view, the definition of the best you could do was end up as foreign minister. There was also, I won’t call it pressure, in our family, but we were all aware that my father, who was a bureaucrat, had become a secretary but was removed from his position as secretary. At that time he probably became the youngest secretary in the Janata government in 1979,” said Jaishankar.
“In 1980, he was Secretary, Production Defense. In 1980, when Indira Gandhi was re-elected, he was the first Secretary she removed. And he was the most knowledgeable person anyone would say in defense,” he added.
Jaishankar said that his father was also a very righteous person, “maybe that caused the problem, I don’t know.”
“But the fact is that as a person he saw his career in the bureaucracy, actually kind of stalled. And after that, he never became a secretary again. During the Rajiv Gandhi period he was replaced by someone younger than him who he became a cabinet secretary. It was something he felt…we rarely talked about it. So he was very, very proud when my elder brother became secretary,” Dr. Jaishankar said.
Jaishankar said he became a government secretary after his father’s death.
“He died in 2011, at that time, I had what you would call grade 1 which is like a secretary…. like an ambassador. I didn’t become a secretary, I did after he died. For us, at that time the goal was to become secretary. As I said, I had achieved that goal. In 2018, I was very happy to walk away into the sunset… but in the end I walked not into the sunset but towards Tata Sons! I was making my fair contribution there I liked them, I think they liked me. Then like a bolt from the blue came the political opportunity. Now the political opportunity for me was something I had to think about because I just wasn’t prepared for it… So I thought about it briefly…,” Jaishankar said when asked about his journey from bureaucrat to cabinet minister.
Reflecting on the PM’s phone call inviting him to join the cabinet led by Narendra Modi in 2019, Jaishankar said it came as a surprise. “It hadn’t crossed my mind, I don’t think it had crossed the mind of anyone else in my circle,” he said of his entry into the union cabinet.
“Once I got in, I have to honestly say I was very insecure myself. I’ve watched politicians all my life. One of the things you can do in the foreign service is actually maybe a lot more than other services is, you see politicians closely because you see them abroad, you kind of work closely with them, advising them. So, it’s one thing to stand by, but actually get into politics, become a cabinet member, defend Rajya Sabha, you know when I was selected, I wasn’t even a Member of Parliament. So each of these things happened one by one. I slipped into it, sometimes without knowing it. You learn by watching others,” he added.
Jaishankar, who joined the Indian Foreign Service in 1977, said he was looking “very carefully at what people are doing both in my party and in other parties”. He is a member of BJP in Rajya Sabha of Gujarat.
Answering a question about his time as a cabinet minister, he said it was a very, very interesting four years
“I don’t think it’s so much a matter of making friends. Yes, it helps when you’re a diplomat, I’ve been trained in a way I would say to get along, to get the most out of situations. Partly also, different people are made in different ways. You’ll see, I rarely get personal with people, even when I’m sometimes provoked. I think people are made in different ways. I’d say this, it’s going to be four years this summer. It’s been a very, very interesting four years When I look at these four years, for me it was actually four years of very intense learning, coming to a state that I had very little knowledge about,” Jaishankar said.
Jaishankar said that when he became a minister he had the choice of whether or not to join a political party.
“One, this government, this cabinet is really a team cabinet. You don’t do your own thing out here. You may have a background, you may come from a stream, but this same idea that you will do your own domination as you say we are technocrats. I don’t think that fits with what this cabinet is. Secondly, when I was chosen as minister, I wasn’t a Member of Parliament, I wasn’t even a member of a political party. I had the choice whether or not to join a party political. There was no obligation, nobody brought it up. It was something that was left to me. I joined because, one, when you join a team, you join it wholeheartedly. That’s where give your best performance and get the best support”.
“And secondly, I have thought a lot about what it means to actually join a political party. It is not a decision I have taken lightly. I am someone who has studied and analyzed politics all my life. of great importance. So I joined because today I sincerely believe that this is a party that best captures India’s feelings, interests and aspirations. You learn so much more when you are a cabinet member,” he added.
He said there is a different level of exposure as a union minister than as a bureaucracy minister.
“Your presentation, every cabinet meeting… let’s say there are 10 articles, it could be on agriculture, it could be on infrastructure. But you get a cabinet note, read the note, you’re interested, you’ll study a little bit ‘ more. So your interest broadens. When your interests broaden, and you go out there and talk to people, it will show.”
Asked if there was any difference in the way Dr Jaishankar thought and acted as a foreign service officer and as a minister and politician, he said it was a challenge for him personally.
“In a way, they are like different lives. You have to understand the challenge that was for me personally because I come from a family of bureaucrats. My father was a bureaucrat. I have an older brother who is a bureaucrat, my grandfather was a bureaucrat and uncles who were there. So our world, if I may put it that way, was very, very bureaucratic. Our goals, our dreams were bureaucratic.”
Jaishankar said that every important issue has a political angle that a minister will tend to see much faster than a bureaucrat
“It’s a different world, a different responsibility. I’ve entrusted it to people like that. I could have sat for 40 years in the Parliament box. It’s not the same as sitting in the Parliament chamber. Sometimes… Sushma Swaraj he was my minister. As foreign minister, we talked a lot. …I was certain that I had a minister and a prime minister above me who at the end of the day would assume that political responsibility,” he said.
“Now, as of May 2019, that political responsibility is mine. It’s a completely different field. As a minister, you have to look at it not at a departmental level, there may be something that is, to give you an example, the export of grain to some country As a secretary I would say that a country’s relationship is very important. But as a minister, do I have to say how are my wheat prices, what are the domestic concerns out there? Who else do we have to talk to? Every issue, every important issue has a political point of view that a minister will tend to see much faster than a bureaucrat, however good that bureaucrat may be,” said Dr. Jaishankar in an extensive podcast interview with ANI editor Smita Prakash.
When asked if it was some kind of challenge, he replied “yes, absolutely”.
In an interview with ANI, Jaishankar talked about his journey from foreign service to politics and said that he always aspired to be the best officer and to be elevated to the post of foreign minister.
Jaishankar served as foreign minister from January 2015 to January 2018 and previously held key positions including ambassador to China and the United States. His father K Subrahmanyam, who passed away in 2011, is considered one of India’s most important national security strategists.
“I wanted to be the best foreign service officer. And in my view, the definition of the best you could do was end up as foreign minister. There was also, I won’t call it pressure, in our family, but we were all aware that my father, who was a bureaucrat, had become a secretary but was removed from his position as secretary. At that time he probably became the youngest secretary in the Janata government in 1979,” said Jaishankar.
“In 1980, he was Secretary, Production Defense. In 1980, when Indira Gandhi was re-elected, he was the first Secretary she removed. And he was the most knowledgeable person anyone would say in defense,” he added.
Jaishankar said that his father was also a very righteous person, “maybe that caused the problem, I don’t know.”
“But the fact is that as a person he saw his career in the bureaucracy, actually kind of stalled. And after that, he never became a secretary again. During the Rajiv Gandhi period he was replaced by someone younger than him who he became a cabinet secretary. It was something he felt…we rarely talked about it. So he was very, very proud when my elder brother became secretary,” Dr. Jaishankar said.
Jaishankar said he became a government secretary after his father’s death.
“He died in 2011, at that time, I had what you would call grade 1 which is like a secretary…. like an ambassador. I didn’t become a secretary, I did after he died. For us, at that time the goal was to become secretary. As I said, I had achieved that goal. In 2018, I was very happy to walk away into the sunset… but in the end I walked not into the sunset but towards Tata Sons! I was making my fair contribution there I liked them, I think they liked me. Then like a bolt from the blue came the political opportunity. Now the political opportunity for me was something I had to think about because I just wasn’t prepared for it… So I thought about it briefly…,” Jaishankar said when asked about his journey from bureaucrat to cabinet minister.
Reflecting on the PM’s phone call inviting him to join the cabinet led by Narendra Modi in 2019, Jaishankar said it came as a surprise. “It hadn’t crossed my mind, I don’t think it had crossed the mind of anyone else in my circle,” he said of his entry into the union cabinet.
“Once I got in, I have to honestly say I was very insecure myself. I’ve watched politicians all my life. One of the things you can do in the foreign service is actually maybe a lot more than other services is, you see politicians closely because you see them abroad, you kind of work closely with them, advising them. So, it’s one thing to stand by, but actually get into politics, become a cabinet member, defend Rajya Sabha, you know when I was selected, I wasn’t even a Member of Parliament. So each of these things happened one by one. I slipped into it, sometimes without knowing it. You learn by watching others,” he added.
Jaishankar, who joined the Indian Foreign Service in 1977, said he was looking “very carefully at what people are doing both in my party and in other parties”. He is a member of BJP in Rajya Sabha of Gujarat.
Answering a question about his time as a cabinet minister, he said it was a very, very interesting four years
“I don’t think it’s so much a matter of making friends. Yes, it helps when you’re a diplomat, I’ve been trained in a way I would say to get along, to get the most out of situations. Partly also, different people are made in different ways. You’ll see, I rarely get personal with people, even when I’m sometimes provoked. I think people are made in different ways. I’d say this, it’s going to be four years this summer. It’s been a very, very interesting four years When I look at these four years, for me it was actually four years of very intense learning, coming to a state that I had very little knowledge about,” Jaishankar said.
Jaishankar said that when he became a minister he had the choice of whether or not to join a political party.
“One, this government, this cabinet is really a team cabinet. You don’t do your own thing out here. You may have a background, you may come from a stream, but this same idea that you will do your own domination as you say we are technocrats. I don’t think that fits with what this cabinet is. Secondly, when I was chosen as minister, I wasn’t a Member of Parliament, I wasn’t even a member of a political party. I had the choice whether or not to join a party political. There was no obligation, nobody brought it up. It was something that was left to me. I joined because, one, when you join a team, you join it wholeheartedly. That’s where give your best performance and get the best support”.
“And secondly, I have thought a lot about what it means to actually join a political party. It is not a decision I have taken lightly. I am someone who has studied and analyzed politics all my life. of great importance. So I joined because today I sincerely believe that this is a party that best captures India’s feelings, interests and aspirations. You learn so much more when you are a cabinet member,” he added.
He said there is a different level of exposure as a union minister than as a bureaucracy minister.
“Your presentation, every cabinet meeting… let’s say there are 10 articles, it could be on agriculture, it could be on infrastructure. But you get a cabinet note, read the note, you’re interested, you’ll study a little bit ‘ more. So your interest broadens. When your interests broaden, and you go out there and talk to people, it will show.”
Asked if there was any difference in the way Dr Jaishankar thought and acted as a foreign service officer and as a minister and politician, he said it was a challenge for him personally.
“In a way, they are like different lives. You have to understand the challenge that was for me personally because I come from a family of bureaucrats. My father was a bureaucrat. I have an older brother who is a bureaucrat, my grandfather was a bureaucrat and uncles who were there. So our world, if I may put it that way, was very, very bureaucratic. Our goals, our dreams were bureaucratic.”
Jaishankar said that every important issue has a political angle that a minister will tend to see much faster than a bureaucrat
“It’s a different world, a different responsibility. I’ve entrusted it to people like that. I could have sat for 40 years in the Parliament box. It’s not the same as sitting in the Parliament chamber. Sometimes… Sushma Swaraj he was my minister. As foreign minister, we talked a lot. …I was certain that I had a minister and a prime minister above me who at the end of the day would assume that political responsibility,” he said.
“Now, as of May 2019, that political responsibility is mine. It’s a completely different field. As a minister, you have to look at it not at a departmental level, there may be something that is, to give you an example, the export of grain to some country As a secretary I would say that a country’s relationship is very important. But as a minister, do I have to say how are my wheat prices, what are the domestic concerns out there? Who else do we have to talk to? Every issue, every important issue has a political point of view that a minister will tend to see much faster than a bureaucrat, however good that bureaucrat may be,” said Dr. Jaishankar in an extensive podcast interview with ANI editor Smita Prakash.
When asked if it was some kind of challenge, he replied “yes, absolutely”.
